This is going to be a long one

Ok folks, here is the next episode. We both got an answer two weeks ago from Salisbury University.

Good Morning.  I just received  an answer back from the VA.  Their position is that everything will remain the same regarding the hybrid courses you are currently taking or may be planning to take next semester.  If a 100% BAH benefit is important to you then you may want to consider taking non-hybrid courses in future semesters.

Angela received the EXACT same reply, word for word about 20 minutes before I got mine. Note the condescension in the last sentence. Especially since that is the only course type available for SU students at USMH. There seems to be a great deal of confusion surrounding course types. I sent the following email in reply.

I asked you for specifics from actual policies, yet you have not provided them. Please send me the email traffic between you and the VA representative. So far the lack of support from Salisbury University has been quite spectacular. Since there are NO alternatives to the classes we must take for this program we cannot CHOOSE to take none hybrid courses.

Since, according to you, this decision was made by someone at the VA please provide the relevant contact information for that person.

Also, you have yet to provide answer as to why another veteran is receiving the full rate at USMH but others are not.

Salisbury University is rated by several organizations as veteran friendly. I have found this not to be true. Salisbury, through their course classification system, is discriminating against veterans in the social work program thereby ensuring that those of us that were enrolled or may want to be enrolled in the future do not receive the benefits for which we are entitled.

Your condescension is noted. Again, if you tell me what, if any, none hybrid courses are available for the Social Work Program at USM Hagerstown and I will take them. In case it hasn’t dawned on you, some of us depend on the living stipend to live and support our families while we are in school. It isn’t a matter of just wanting more money.

Salisbury University needs to take a good hard look at whether they want to truly be veteran friendly and if they truly want the diversity that veterans provide in the Social Work Program. So far all we have seen is talk that sounds good, but there appears to be no follow through.

I will be filing complaints through the VA and through the Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights.

Here is what Angela sent.

Let me see if I understand:

• The VA classifies the program at SU through USMH as a online hybrid course
• The BAH is reflective of that and is only half time

Then based on the information, I would like to know what information was sent to the VA on my behalf.  Because that is not reflective of Title 38 as I understand it.  Since this information inquiry was sent to the VA regarding an decision for my benefits, I am entitled to know what was sent and I expect to have this by Friday, December 18th.  I would also like to note that I have requested a copy of what was sent to the VA on two other occasions.

As a Social Worker I am taught that I must be an advocate for those who can not advocate for themselves, so based on that, I will be appealing this decision, not for me, but for future veterans that would possible consider SU as a their school of choice.  I feel that SU and the VA have let down the Social Work program in the Hagerstown area and this decision will affect future students of the program because they will not have the insight and diversity of having veterans enrolled into this program.  I sincerely hope for the future of this program that SU considers rewording their program description in order to reflect what actually happens here at the USMH campus.

In addition, I will filing a formal complaint with the VA regarding my treatment while at SU and with the Board of Education.  I had hoped to avoid this type of action, but I feel it is my only choice at this juncture.

I spoke to a Vocational Rehabilitation counselor in Baltimore who informed me that it is up to the school to decide how to code and classify their classes.

Angela got this reply.

Mr. W has forwarded your message to me regarding the issue of the your BAH allowance and the hybrid/online designation of your courses. I regret that you feel that you have received poor treatment from Salisbury University and the VA.  I can certainly understand your position, as we have been working with the VA this past semester for a better understanding of their rulings on hybrid classes.

I have been in communication yet again with the VA.  I have specifically raised the question of Title 38 and how it appears to be in conflict with the VA’s determination of resident credit for Certifying Officials, provided by our VA Educational Liaison in Baltimore:

A course which requires regularly scheduled, standard class sessions at least once every two weeks and which has a total number of class sessions equal to the number of credit hours awarded for the course, times the number of weeks in a standard quarter or semester, as applicable;  (School Certifying Official’s Handbook, p. 53)

Please be assured that I will look into this personally and respond to you as soon as possible, when I hear back from the VA.  In the meantime, if you’d like to discuss with me this or any other issues you’ve had with SU’s handling of your VA educational benefits, please feel free to contact me on my direct phone line at

So finally someone seems to finally understand the problem. Not that we imagine that there will be any fix because it all comes back to how the school codes the program and courses.

I got this in response to my earlier email..

I cannot supply you with the email traffic between me and the VA; however, I will provide you the rational for their decision.  Please see below:

Any courses that consist of some interaction using communications technology and some weeks of standard class sessions, but that do not meet the requirements to be classified as in- residence training, are considered independent study. (page 53 of the SCO Handbook)

A course which requires regularly scheduled, standard class sessions at least once every two weeks and which has a total number of class sessions equal to the number of credit hours awarded for the course, times the number of weeks in a standard quarter or semester, as applicable;

I would also like to provide you the link to the School Certifying Official (SCO) Handbook.  Please see below:

http://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/docs/job_aids/SCO_Handbook.pdf

I do not know the student whom you are referring to at USMH.  Nor do I know if he or she is an SU student.  You are entitled to a second opinion; therefore I would also like to refer you to the “Submit a Question” section on the GI Bill webpage.  Please see below:

http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/

I hope these resources will assist you.

So the last link isn’t relevant since are not not on the GI Bill which has been explained several time. And we are still trying to figure out what he means with the bit about independent study.

 

So basically it all comes down to the school classifying courses on a campus, in a traditional classroom, with an instructor, regularly scheduled once per week as distance learning. This has probably been one of the most frustrating experiences in my life and is a warning to veterans to ask what specifically they will receive and ensure they understand everything to do with the various course types. No matter what anyone tells you, do the research.